Curse

Fay Vert · Nov 08, 2008, 03:44 AM // 03:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Why would you compare a bow to spear plus pet? Under NRA's 25% IAS the spear plus pet combo attacks 1.5 times per second, bow plus pet attacks 1.39 times per second. That's an 8% difference, not 100%. Or maybe you also let a monk hero wand him, or your MM.

Yes, BHA has a longer flight time then Stunning Spear, but you can cripple with a bow, and knockdown with PvE skills, just as well.

Maybe, I've some doubts about that claim, ranger has some options to increase bow damage, but not spear damage.

Or the other way around. There's still no D-Shot for the spear, they can both make good use of daze and their damage is comparable (especially when both bring a pet).

Which brings us nicely back to...

What is your 8 skill build?

Luminarus · Nov 08, 2008, 03:47 AM // 03:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

You wouldn't normally take down the dazed target first and fast, since the daze (+attacks form your pet and you) is supposed to already take it out of the fight.

You daze the monk so it cant heal itself, then you kill the monk so it cant heal the party, and the R/P can pretty fast kill it. The first 4 attacks usually knock out atleast 1/4 of the things hp, you'll recieve aoe help as well so reaching 50% is really fast. Once it reaches 50% hp its over for it. As I posted earlier, this build solo dropped a lvl 30 wurm in like 15 seconds. No AoE help, nothing and it took 15 seconds. Lvl 30 wurm has more hp and more armor then most things in HM. Alone this could probably drop a monk in 9-10 seconds, unless it got a lucky cast through. I know its a team game so dont start spouting that crap. Im just saying that even solo shutting down something, this will still drop it fast.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Recharging 10 adrenaline, is going to take a while, at least 10 hits (11.4 seconds with NRA) and longer when using other adrenal skills. Though shorter then the 15 seconds for BHA, the latter's daze lasts almost twice as long (16-17s), which makes it possible to keep a target dazed with ease. Stunning Strike's daze has a far shorter duration (8-9) on daze, making it harder to maintain daze.

Every 8 seconds you get + 5 adrenaline from spear of fury... that blows ur maths out the window. Also even without this, using a +33% spear thats another 3 seconds which is 12 seconds which makes it easily maintainable. The only ones it gets harder on is bosses, but having dazed more readily applied when ur gonna need it, (Eg trying to kill willa), its better to have 5 seconds when you need it then 8 when you dont (numbers taking into account boss Halfed Condition Durations).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Why would you compare a bow to spear plus pet? Under NRA's 25% IAS the spear plus pet combo attacks 1.5 times per second, bow plus pet attacks 1.39 times per second. That's an 8% difference, not 100%. Or maybe you also let a monk hero wand him, or your MM.

There is no possible way for a bow to attack faster then a spear when both are under the same IAS. NO POSSIBLE WAY. And again with the BHA, + pet idea. FFS the general BHA build doesnt have a pet for a reason. Again trying to argue with 14+ skills... make up ur bloody mind. Post a build amy or stfu.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Yes, BHA has a longer flight time then Stunning Spear, but you can cripple with a bow, and knockdown with PvE skills, just as well.

With a bow you dont have the energy to spam the pve skills like you do with a spear. You can still kite a BHA under cripple, especially with HM's innate IMS. You have to be very unlucky to have stunning kited.
BHA ignores benefits from rtw, fave winds... and takes twice as long to hit the target. With a shortbow this is 1.2 seconds. With a flatbow this is 1.76 seconds. With a recurve this is 0.8 With a horn or long this is 1.2 seconds. (All these numbers are assuming you walked to shortbow range, if you went further its less but ur in more damage, if you walked further back it takes longer.) Spear takes 0.6 seconds to hit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Maybe, I've some doubts about that claim, ranger has some options to increase bow damage, but not spear damage.

Cant have ur cake and eat it. Either a pet or damage, there isnt the room for you to have both on the bar as ive shown earlier. If you have a pet you do less DPS then a spear + pet. If you have + damage you lose out on the pet damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Or the other way around. There's still no D-Shot for the spear, they can both make good use of daze and their damage is comparable (especially when both bring a pet).

How many times do I have to discredit everything you say? D-Shot fails against dazed targets, so its pointless in that regard. It is still great overall, however the aftercast also ruins ur swing giving a wider time period for them to cast through.

Damage is not comparable when using a pet, because if using a shortbow ur as close in as you are with a spear. If using a longbow/recurve ur DPS is shot, if using a flatbow ur BHA is most likely going to miss. If using a hornbow with BHA ur a tard. Spears do more DPS then a bow, even under comparable IAS. Due to energy costs its highly likely that you wont be able to maintain the IAS.
Yes you can weapon swap, but that's a hassle, especially if you swap to a shorter range weapon and have to move closer, which ruins ur DPS for that second or 2.

And finally if ur gonna keep arguing ur point, post a build. In this post alone you wanted atleast 6 skills, and havent added ur damage yet (BHA, D-Shot, Charm, Comfort, YMLAD, NRA) and are burning alot of energy, + have no cover condition that you were refering to as a con of the R/P.

Amy Awien · Nov 08, 2008, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luminarus

You daze the monk so it cant heal itself, then you kill the monk so it cant heal the party,

That's one tactic, I find it more effective to have the party kill other targets once it is dazed, the shutdown means it's presence can not influence the fight.

Tactics are mostly a matter of preference, if you prefer killing the dazed target first then the short cycle of Stunning Spear is an advantage, while the shorter duration of daze doesn't matter.

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Every 8 seconds you get + 5 adrenaline from spear of fury...

Spear of Fury is a grind skill and thus not generally available. I for one did not buy Guild Wars for it's options to grind.

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There is no possible way for a bow to attack faster then a spear when both are under the same IAS. NO POSSIBLE WAY.

No, and I never said so, no need to shout. but the spear certainly isn't twice as fast, with pets it was 8% faster, no more then that. If you compare attack rates you might as well compare them with both under an IAS.

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And again with the BHA, + pet idea. FFS the general BHA build doesnt have a pet for a reason.

Which was? You invalidate your comparison of attack rates by leaving out the IAS and/or pet for the bow variant.

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Again trying to argue with 14+ skills... make up ur bloody mind. Post a build amy or stfu.

There's no 14 skills needed to bring a pet with NRA and BHA, bringing a pet with NRA requires exactly as many skills with the bow as with a spear. And at least BHA doesn't require a PvE grind skill, that is one skill slot saved.

And explain to me how posting a build can have any influence on the attack rate of our characters? How?

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With a bow you dont have the energy to spam the pve skills like you do with a spear.

With a bow you don't need YmlaD as a replacement interrupt, and without the need to use it as such, you don't need the energy. YmlaD has many applications though, so I can see why you'd want to bring it and Scavenger's along.

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You can still kite a BHA under cripple, especially with HM's innate IMS.

The high arc / slow flight speed is a downside, but I don't see it miss a lot in practice, cripple can help, and the tendency of casters to stay put and try and cast their spells. Be glad they don't kite like players would, if they used the same awareness of - and reflexes to - our actions as they display with their interrupts for kiting, we could as well throw away bows and spears.

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Cant have ur cake and eat it. Either a pet or damage, there isnt the room for you to have both on the bar as ive shown earlier.

There's exactly as much room for a pet with both weapons, 4 skills for pet, one for the daze, three skills remaining. Could use one for the prep and two for interrupt, damage or additional utility. That should get you started on a build, adapt where needed.

If you bring a pet only for the hits and not the damage you might look elsewhere for those, you're not alone but in team of 8.

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If you have a pet you do less DPS then a spear + pet. If you have + damage you lose out on the pet damage.

I always though packhunters had pets because of the extra damage and the IAS?

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How many times do I have to discredit everything you say? D-Shot fails against dazed targets, so its pointless in that regard.

You're trying to discredit D-Shot? You don't have to keep looking at your dazed target, you can tab around and d-shot elsewhere. Once it's dazed and has one or two attackers on it it's practically taken out of the fight.

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Damage is not comparable when using a pet, because if using a shortbow ur as close in as you are with a spear.

It's shorter range doesn't negatively that impact damage.

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Due to energy costs its highly likely that you wont be able to maintain the IAS.

I've never had any problems maintaining NRA on a hybrid. If you're looking for an IAS on the bow only, there are other options.

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Yes you can weapon swap, but that's a hassle, especially if you swap to a shorter range weapon and have to move closer, which ruins ur DPS for that second or 2.

Flatbow works just fine to generate hits, especially with something like RtW, which helps your occasional interrupts on other targets. Weapon swapping from (for example) a recurve or long bow (for BHA) to a flat bow isn't that much of a hassle.

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In this post alone you wanted atleast 6 skills, and havent added ur damage yet (BHA, D-Shot, Charm, Comfort, YMLAD, NRA) and are burning alot of energy, + have no cover condition that you were refering to as a con of the R/P.

I don't think that I've even mentioned cover conditions. Stunning Strike requires a condition on your target for it's daze, BHA doesn't. The condition that Stunning Strike requires for it's daze is not a cover condition.

YmlaD is something optional. Charm, Comfort, NRA and BHA with the bow or Stunning with the spear. The core of these bars is very similar and takes 4 slots. You could, with a bow, bring RtW and an interrupt, then make your pick the other two slots, Scavenger's can be nice, maybe with Sloth, or YmlaD.

Fay Vert · Nov 08, 2008, 12:43 PM // 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luminarus

if using a flatbow ur BHA is most likely going to miss.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Flatbow works just fine to generate hits, especially with something like RtW, which helps your occasional interrupts on other targets. Weapon swapping from (for example) a recurve or long bow (for BHA) to a flat bow isn't that much of a hassle.

Before arguing about BHA can you at least understand how it works?

Flight buffs and bows do not affect BHA one jot, you gain no benefit from using a recurve and suffer no penalty from using a flatbow. In fact flat bow is the best bow to use with BHA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

The high arc / slow flight speed is a downside, but I don't see it miss a lot in practice, cripple can help, and the tendency of casters to stay put and try and cast their spells. Be glad they don't kite like players would, if they used the same awareness of - and reflexes to - our actions as they display with their interrupts for kiting, we could as well throw away bows and spears.

Then you must be playing a different game to me, because monks kite like crazy in hard mode, especially with a pet stuck on them, and trying to BHA at range you are going to miss most of the time, with or without cripple.

Or maybe BHA is a skill you have only done the numbers on and not used.

BHA is a specialist skill not a general skill, I bring it along when there is a party wipe boss to get through. It gimps your damage ability, if you are the shutdown guy you would have to be an idiot to try to maintain DPS on your build, your role as BHA is NOT damage, you bring along all the utility you can because that's what makes sense. When you BHA you bring skills like Light of Deldrimore, Pain Inverter, contidtions, fast rez etc. Leave the damage to someone else, because as BHA you ain't got none. If you try to bring damage with BHA then you are just a gimped, silly, useless noob being dragged along by the rest of the party.

Tyla · Nov 08, 2008, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Spear of Fury is a grind skill and thus not generally available. I for one did not buy Guild Wars for it's options to grind.

I didn't buy Guild Wars for its grind either, but there's no reason to discount skills such as Spear of Fury from either side of the argument. Oh, and PvP (to a lesser extent), in Alliance Battles, Fort Aspenwood or Jade Quarry all give grind-free faction. Well, unless you count playing in an area where players vary among skill levels, skill bars, strategic planning and so forth, in which case I would just laugh at you.

Super Igor · Nov 08, 2008, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

Reading comprehension FTW!!

read that statement again, the point being is that this combo although good isnt worth the effort to make your hero do, it like echoing stuff, sometimes might be effective but not effective enough to bother on a hero.

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Heors will cancel Flail to use ECharge, they will also use flail when ever it's charged like at the very end of a battle. So you have to move on to the next mob with your Hero lagging back because of slowed movement waiting for ECharge to recharge.

Never seen this happening tbh, they wont use any buff if its already on them. Though, the might use ec on recharge to gain adrenalline which isnt particularly bad.

Amy Awien · Nov 08, 2008, 03:01 PM // 15:01

You're right Tyla, if you have a skill you shouldn't discount it, it would be pointless to not use it where it is useful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Flight buffs and bows do not affect BHA one jot, you gain no benefit from using a recurve and suffer no penalty from using a flatbow. In fact flat bow is the best bow to use with BHA.

There, you hear that Luminarus, no need to swap bows.

One says different bow types make a difference, one that it doesn't. Frame counting tells me BHA has a slightly shorter flight time with the recurve (1.2 vs 1.32 s on shortbow distance).

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Then you must be playing a different game to me, because monks kite like crazy in hard mode, especially with a pet stuck on them,

Wait a little with sending your pet in, use that pet interface. They don't kite until you give them reason to, and they don't kite while casting. Changing the order of events a little can make a difference.

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BHA is a specialist skill not a general skill,

Ok, daze only for the special cases ....

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... if you are the shutdown guy you would have to be an idiot to try to maintain DPS on your build, your role as BHA is NOT damage, you bring along all the utility you can because that's what makes sense.

Ok, we're here because spears were said to be hotter then bows because they would have better DPS, but now a shutdown guy shouldn't be trying to maintain DPS afterall. So basically you are saying that it's better to bring utility along with daze rather then trying to add DPS to it? Then wouldn't a bow be a more obvious choice?

Quote:

If you try to bring damage with BHA then you are just a gimped, silly, useless noob being dragged along by the rest of the party.

Sounds a bit like the Stunning Strike spear ranger.

Bobby2 · Nov 08, 2008, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Weapon swapping from (for example) a recurve or long bow (for BHA) to a flat bow isn't that much of a hassle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Flight buffs and bows do not affect BHA one jot, you gain no benefit from using a recurve and suffer no penalty from using a flatbow. In fact flat bow is the best bow to use with BHA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

There, you hear that Luminarus, no need to swap bows.

This is why I love the internet, gg Amy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Ok, we're here because spears were said to be hotter then bows because they would have better DPS, but now a shutdown guy shouldn't be trying to maintain DPS afterall. So basically you are saying that it's better to bring utility along with daze rather then trying to add DPS to it? Then wouldn't a bow be a more obvious choice?

This depends on where your priorities lie. I want my peepz to kill shit fast, cuz killing shit fast is fun imho. For most areas in which you'd even wanna bother bringing Daze, I'd sooner pick a R/P Stunning Beastmaster, which fills a DPS role, with Daze on the side.

Still eagerly waiting for proof on how a BHA Ranger can beat a Stunning Beastmaster DPS wise

Amy Awien · Nov 08, 2008, 04:00 PM // 16:00

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Originally Posted by Bobby2

This is why I love the internet, gg Amy

But you even forgot the part that completes it

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Originally Posted by Luminarus

... If using a longbow/recurve ur DPS is shot, if using a flatbow ur BHA is most likely going to miss. ... Yes you can weapon swap, but that's a hassle ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

For most areas in which you'd even wanna bother bringing Daze, I'd sooner pick a R/P Stunning Beastmaster, which fills a DPS role, with Daze on the side.

If daze is of a low priority why would you bring a build that has such a focus on it's application and use? If you want DPS it would make more sense to run something that yields DPS.

Bobby2 · Nov 08, 2008, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

But you even forgot the part that completes it

Fay trashed your argument as much as Lumi's, yet you brought it up to supposedly support your point. From my point of view I haven't forgotten anything, so you'll have to specify a bit more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

If daze is of a lower priority why would you bring a build that has a lesser focus on it's application and use? If you want DPS it would make more sense to run something that yields DPS.

Such as a R/P Stunning Beastmaster, yeye. Its focus, again, is DPS, with Daze on the side as utility. Hardly the same priorities as BHA, but this seems too hard for you to understand.

Fixed btw, answering your question at the same time - rawr

Let's play a game, shall we?

[broad head arrow][distracting shot][empty][empty][empty][never rampage alone][charm animal][comfort animal]

Fill in the 3 blank spots, making it so that its DPS output is superior to the R/P.

Amy Awien · Nov 08, 2008, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Fay trashed your argument as much as Lumi's, yet you brought it up to supposedly support your point.

Actually, Fay thrashed neither and you missed part of the conversation, or left it out.

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Such as a R/P Stunning Beastmaster, yeye. Its focus, again, is DPS, with Daze on the side as utility.

With an elite to provide the daze, one skill to speed up it's (re)charge and three to optimize it's abuse, I certainly understood it's focus to be on the daze. But if you believe it's focus is DPS ... what in that build gives it that focus for you?

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Fixed btw, answering your question at the same time - rawr

It reads easier if you just quote and reply and not modify quotes.

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Let's play a game, shall we?

I only play with people I can trust.

Super Igor · Nov 08, 2008, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Let's play a game, shall we?

[broad head arrow][distracting shot][empty][empty][empty][never rampage alone][charm animal][comfort animal]

Fill in the 3 blank spots, making it so that its DPS output is superior to the R/P.

I wtb attributes too! QQ

Amy Awien · Nov 08, 2008, 09:42 PM // 21:42

No Igor, you can't buy them, you level up to 20, ascend and then do quests for extra points, starting with that forgotten guy in the Crystal Desert, if you can get past the Hydra's.

byteme! · Nov 08, 2008, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Amy you're pulling arguments out of your arse. Strawmen tactics. Your arguments are so flawed. I'd pick out a few to pick your bones but it won't do anything seeing as though your gonna make up random weird subjective circumstances/reasons to somehow in some way make it seem like you have a feasible argument. If you read very very very carefully you've failed. Go ahead and argue against that. There's enough evidence laying on this thread. I rest my case.

You can't support your own argument with a complete set of 8 skills so don't expect sympathy. In a battle of wits Amy you have come unarmed. The lack of a skill bar is your downfall in this long and stupid argument.

Super Igor · Nov 08, 2008, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Yeah and at the same time Amy speaks about being mature, I lol'd.

byteme! · Nov 08, 2008, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Yeah and at the same time Amy speaks about being mature, I lol'd.

No offense but you're not exactly mature either. The irony is you keep mentioning how "immature" others are. Whether you are mature or not does not need to be told. Judging by the way you act it's crystal clear how mature or immature you really are.

Amy Awien · Nov 08, 2008, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Oh, a new direction.

Shall we go through it, dissect every post and list all cases of straw man and other fallacies? But then I don't expect you to be honest and fair enough to critically look at every post, yours included. Don't be such a hypocrite. You do realize that this whole mess did not start with a straw man from me.

Oh, and you do understand it's meaning, I suppose, and it's not just a nice ringing word you've picked up somewhere in an another discussion?

byteme! · Nov 08, 2008, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Fair is fair. But lets start with you first.....One thing at a time.

8 skill bar please.

Amy Awien · Nov 08, 2008, 11:03 PM // 23:03

And you mention fallacies?

I wasn't the one to start using 'straw man' fallacies, and I don't think I have anywhere.

Luminarus · Nov 08, 2008, 11:25 PM // 23:25

I loled hard at amy's post. No offence bud, but ur brain is failing you. Go back to school.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

That's one tactic, I find it more effective to have the party kill other targets once it is dazed, the shutdown means it's presence can not influence the fight.

Tactics are mostly a matter of preference, if you prefer killing the dazed target first then the short cycle of Stunning Spear is an advantage, while the shorter duration of daze doesn't matter.

Well, spear + pet is more likely to shutdown something then BHA, even if it has a pet. Spear + pet AS I POSTED can kill something even if the rest of the team is elsewhere. BHA would take like 45 seconds to drop anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Spear of Fury is a grind skill and thus not generally available. I for one did not buy Guild Wars for it's options to grind.

Getting r1 is hardly grind at all. The skill gives +3 adrenaline at r1, hardly something to scoff at. Dont grind if you dont want. + 3 adrenaline, +31 damage is all good. Damage and shortens recharge of stunning. I would rather run it at r7 for the +5 adrenaline, but anything works. It still blows a hole in ur maths, lowering Stunnings recharge to the better then that (as a percentage of dazed duration).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

No, and I never said so, no need to shout. but the spear certainly isn't twice as fast, with pets it was 8% faster, no more then that. If you compare attack rates you might as well compare them with both under an IAS.

Read ur own stupid posts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Under NRA's 25% IAS the spear plus pet combo attacks 1.5 times per second, bow plus pet attacks 1.39 times per second.

I bolded the relevant part. Stupid...

If you also read the post u quoted, I did compare them. I only didnt compare spear with pet & ias to bow with pet & ias because its too energy draining on a bow ranger. Its not feasible to have a skill that drains 8-9 energy every 15 seconds, as well as another that drains the same amount every 20ish (seeing as NRA is a "grind skill" and you hate grind, you obviously dont have r10 sunspear.) You then dont want to lose ur precious savage and d-shot, theres more energy drained, with less DPS then the R/P

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Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Which was? You invalidate your comparison of attack rates by leaving out the IAS and/or pet for the bow variant.

Read Up

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Originally Posted by Amy Awien

There's no 14 skills needed to bring a pet with NRA and BHA, bringing a pet with NRA requires exactly as many skills with the bow as with a spear. And at least BHA doesn't require a PvE grind skill, that is one skill slot saved.

That pve grind skill has one of the best + damages on a spear attack, it naturally increases DPS, even at low luxon ranks. However ur BHA requires savage and d-shot because you have a bow. Thats 2 slots saved under your book.

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Originally Posted by Amy Awien

And explain to me how posting a build can have any influence on the attack rate of our characters? How?

It wont, but itll compare DPS. R/P has more DPS, pure and simple until you post a build proving otherwise. Arguing with as many skills as you can throw at us and still losing the argument means u cant even win an argument that is supposedly in ur favor. You have all the advantages, seeing as u think your right, and ur not stuck with 8 skills. Notice that I havent changed 1 skill in my bar throughout this thread. But you have used 15 i think it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

With a bow you don't need YmlaD as a replacement interrupt, and without the need to use it as such, you don't need the energy. YmlaD has many applications though, so I can see why you'd want to bring it and Scavenger's along.

Again YMLAD isnt a replacement interupt. Its spammable, HIGH armor ignoring damage, and shutdown (which is better then an interupt). Being able to knock something out for 20% of the time is great. As well as this its damage is HIGHER then that of savage shot, even about the same as savage used SUCCESSFULLY twice. Im pretty sure, like d-shots 20second doesnt trigger on a dazed target savage's damage doesnt either. Hence ur either using it on a different target, or ur not getting the damage in which case u lose out on DPS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

The high arc / slow flight speed is a downside, but I don't see it miss a lot in practice, cripple can help, and the tendency of casters to stay put and try and cast their spells. Be glad they don't kite like players would, if they used the same awareness of - and reflexes to - our actions as they display with their interrupts for kiting, we could as well throw away bows and spears.

Good luck kiting a spear whilst crippled.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

There's exactly as much room for a pet with both weapons, 4 skills for pet, one for the daze, three skills remaining. Could use one for the prep and two for interrupt, damage or additional utility. That should get you started on a build, adapt where needed.

Ok, lets go then:

[Broad Head Arrow][D-Shot][Savage Shot][Never Rampage Alone][Read The Wind][Charm Animal][Comfort Animal][Optional]

There we go, was that much different from a build you flamed me for making a bit back? Ok, DPS is still less then that of a spear. You still have too much energy if you plan on using d-shot as often as you hope. If you have 3 beast mastery (assuming 12-12-3 split) then ur doing like 0 damage from ur pet and wasting three slots for an IAS. You also have not enough energy to spam attacks and keep ur IAS up. Interupts also give an aftercast which again ruins ur attack speed.

[/QUOTE]If you bring a pet only for the hits and not the damage you might look elsewhere for those, you're not alone but in team of 8.[/QUOTE]

Im not even sure what ur trying to say with this point. Its just stupid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

I always though packhunters had pets because of the extra damage and the IAS?

They do, however if ur going for the Bow DPS vs Spear DPS argument running a pet on a spear has overall higher DPS. Hence it makes it BETTER. On a bow you cant really improve ur bow damage and have a pet, as the build you said above shows.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

You're trying to discredit D-Shot? You don't have to keep looking at your dazed target, you can tab around and d-shot elsewhere. Once it's dazed and has one or two attackers on it it's practically taken out of the fight.

What happened to ur party NOT attacking the dazed target? If you arent alone in shutting down that character, fine, tab around. Theres nothing wrong with that. But then again, dps drops. This is exactly the reason why I said overall R/P is better. In some areas BHA is better. If you know theres gonna be some mobs that are gonna need 2 or three things shut down the BHA is better. However, most of the time you just need to shut down the monk long enough to get the kills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

It's shorter range doesn't negatively that impact damage.

One of ur arguments against spears was that they had close range. They are the same as that of a shortbow. Arguing DPS with DPS I was showing the cons of each of the bows. Recurves and Longs fire slowly, so obviously arent meant for DPS. Flats and Shorts are the only options then for DPS. (Horns are good for spike, dont even try to bring them in here). If going close enough for shortbow use then Spear has better DPS, and better armor for the same outcome. If using a flat then as I posted it has a large effect on BHA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

I've never had any problems maintaining NRA on a hybrid. If you're looking for an IAS on the bow only, there are other options.

Ok, lets post numbers since you love them so much:

You want DPS which means decent ranks in both marksmanship and beast. Lets try with an 11/11/10 split before runes. 11+1 expertise, 11+1+1 marks, 10+1 beast. As fair an attribute split as possible, gets the most out of expertise, marks and beast. At 12 expertise BHA costs 8 energy. Never Rampage Alone costs 8 Energy. Dshot Costs 3, savage shot costs 5.

So thats 8 energy every 15 seconds (8/15 energy consumed). D-Shot is 3 energy every 10 seconds. Savage is 5 energy every 5. NRA is another 8 every 25. Every 30 seconds you have to use over 27 from BHA and IAS and ur preparation. . This means you have little energy so spare for interupts, let alone more damage skills. Hell every 30 seconds in order to keep BHA, IAS and ur Prep you have 3 energy spare. Sure you can use a zealous weapon but the point is still valid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Flatbow works just fine to generate hits, especially with something like RtW, which helps your occasional interrupts on other targets. Weapon swapping from (for example) a recurve or long bow (for BHA) to a flat bow isn't that much of a hassle.

And as I said unless ur at the right range for the second weapon you could lose time moving in closer. And it drops ur DPS since firing that under an IAS still takes the better part of 2 seconds, as well as time lost in weapon swapping.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

I don't think that I've even mentioned cover conditions. Stunning Strike requires a condition on your target for it's daze, BHA doesn't. The condition that Stunning Strike requires for it's daze is not a cover condition.

You did in an earlier post saying that BHA can bring a cover condition in areas with cond removal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

YmlaD is something optional. Charm, Comfort, NRA and BHA with the bow or Stunning with the spear. The core of these bars is very similar and takes 4 slots. You could, with a bow, bring RtW and an interrupt, then make your pick the other two slots, Scavenger's can be nice, maybe with Sloth, or YmlaD.

We made the build earlier, if you want to spam things then you need scavengers to power your energy. However that build doesnt have a condition to cause apart from dazed... You cant afford sloths or YMLAD because they cost too much. And that was with very fair attributes to do what you wanted. (Oh, and if you swap the preparation for a condition causing one you lose out on that DPS you love. If you bring [Poison Tipped Signet] you lose out on an interupt, or ur optional slot.) And finally at the end of the day, ur DPS is nothing to compare to that of the R/P.

Next time you post, please stop pulling crap out of ur arse to prove a wrong point.